Vapor Steam Uph Cleaning?

[Grant D.]

Is anyone actually doing this? If so how does it work, and how WELL does it work?

I did another couch for free yesterday with my dry foam setup. Why free? Because it didn't look any better when I got done than when I started so I couldn't in good conscience take their $$...  I'm not sure why but with the dry foam, sometimes it works like a charm and sometimes it seems to do nothing.  

Maybe HWE or any other system is like that on some fabrics too?  All I know is this really isn't working very well for me, so either an hwe upholstery setup or maybe vapor steam uph unit is in my future.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

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[TimO]

Is anyone actually doing this? If so how does it work, and how WELL does it work?

I did another couch for free yesterday with my dry foam setup. Why free? Because it didn't look any better when I got done than when I started so I couldn't in good conscience take their $$...  I'm not sure why but with the dry foam, sometimes it works like a charm and sometimes it seems to do nothing.  

Maybe HWE or any other system is like that on some fabrics too?  All I know is this really isn't working very well for me, so either an hwe upholstery setup or maybe vapor steam uph unit is in my future.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Hey Grant,

I know you are pretty precise with your approach and your methods. Upholstery can be pretty tricky and the thought of jacking one up can cause techs to pause. I think UPH cleaning was more of an art when there were many more (difficult/ sensitive) fabrics being used in manufacturing. Today I don't think we need to overthink this one too much. Dry foam is perfect for some applications but I think you'll get more impressive results w/ HWE, here's why;

My experience with UPH cleaning depends on what fabrics you're running into and what kind of chems you're using. Over the last 3 years I've done a fair amount of upholstery and 95% of it are synthetics. They don't bleed, they don't discolor and they can take a pretty good scrubbing. I use HWE @ 75-120 psi and chems by Kleenright. It has a heavy ammonia smell to it but really works well. Body oils, ink, some bio, & just that miscellaneous stuff all melts away. I finish w/ an odor killing encapsulant. Advice would be careful with your heat! Too much (on certain fabrics) can give the upholstery a certain, undesireable sheen.

Others may have different opinoins or other advice, but I don't sweat the method anymore. I'm also sure there are other chems that I've never heard of that are great, maybe we'll see some other suggestions. I've used HWE on plenty of sets that recommended other methods of cleaning and have gotten great results.

My $.02

[jtmellon]

In the past I HWE and turned my first customers white sofa a nice shade of brown(that was many years ago).  I have also done office type chairs via HWE and the results were just ok.

I have even used a fp pad with a drill driver on uph and I am not that happy with it.  

I now do all my uph by hand.   A few years ago when I discovered Ricks Releasit I noticed it made a nice foam and I gave it a try.  I whip it up into a nice foam and use either a sea sponge or a horse hair brush, some time I use both, brush on the arm areas and sponge the rest.  Use a white towel to dry it all off and use a blower, blowing across the item.  Oh make sure you pre vac first.  

This is the safest way to clean uph and its also quick.  My customers like it and most items turn out looking good.  Lets face it if the item is real soiled even HWE is not going to do much more.  

This way of cleaning works on just about all type of uph and it really works on comm uph I could knock out office chairs in about 5 min each (if I dont vac).

I used the VS system years ago and just like you I saw no results.

I am pleased with the results and for now this is what I do.  Give it a try.

[noweare]

I haven't used my vapor steamer on uph. yet, afraid of too much moisture and heat.
My first choice is my CSS step son, a small osc. pad machine.  It seems to work the best
for me. I also use a small HWE spotter (Durrmaid) which works well also.

[diamond brian]

White cotton can be tricky.  I've done lots and am still a little scared of it.  Best bet is to use Haitian Cotton Shampoo and a towel.

Otherwise, upholstery is best done with HWE.

Prespray heavy with mild alkaline detergent and give it 5 minutes dwell time.  HWE a cushion with 100 psi and immediately groom with white towel to remove wand marks.

Microfiber will look crappy until completely dry.

As for vapor steaming, I don't believe it to an effective cleaning method for anything but spots.

[jeffvanburen]

Grant- I have used my vapor steamer on a few pieces does a nice job. If you want a low moisture system to avoid shrinkage, bleeding etc. try this a couple of cleaners on another board turned me unto it and it rocks. Purchase a auto polisher I use a Makita 3 speed set at the lowest speed 600RPM, with a 8" tuway pad from excellent-supply.com. Prespray with Punch also from excellent-supply.com small sections at a time about 1/3 of the piece your working on. next agitate with poisher and tuway pad. Customers love it I explain what overwetting can cause an ask do their clothes come clean without agitation? On some spots I will use a horse hair brush. This system does a terrific job and makes the fabric fibers look good, drys in no time. Not the magic pill for every job but I use it on more than not, quick, effective,great results

[Mike M]

I think Micky posted something about using steam vapor on upholstery? Seems to me he used it with microfiber?

I use mostly HWE for upholstery. Most everything I see is pretty beat and way overdue for cleaning. I prespray, agitate with a drill brush driver then HWE. Works for me.

I have been able to encap a few jobs that weren't too bad.

Upholstery is like carpet. No one system or chem seems to work every time. I try to match my method and chems to the job at hand.

Dry Steam vapor should work fine for upholstery. Just wondering how fast it would be?

[Juan Rodriguez]

Grant

 I use my TM when doing furniture. But, when I have a piece or two to do I use my Thoro-Matic spotter, which holds 2 gals. of water and operates at 60 psi.  I use tap hot water and usually have to empty and refill the spotter once for each piece of furniture.   I prespray the piece, agitate with a horse hair brush and then use the spotter to extract.

Juan

[micky navarro]

its been quite some time since i done upholstery but out of all the methods i've employed, steam vapor beats em all hands down. you really need to know the fabric and thats what will dictate how fast or how slow you move with the vapor. some will shine as if they were polished, but nowadays, most people own synthetic cheap walmart type stuff.

white cottons, when i did them, i first gave a small spritz of neutalizing rinse (yes rinse) to stabalize the fabric and avoid yellowing, or as its truely known, browning  
not all cottons will do this but its better to be safe then sorry, all though the browning process can be remedied.
99.9% of the time, i did not use a cleaning agent when i used vapor. just a brush, a white salon terry towel, and microfiber towels. the towels would be attached to an upholstery tool, and the brush be for aggitation.
lotsa times the aggitation i got from the micro's was enough.

i use to experiment with a steam vapor/oms combo.  oms is odorless mineral spirits, or dry cleaning fluid for those of you that dont know.  specifically, i used cleancrafts "dry max", the best dry cleaner on the market today. in a hand held trigger sprayer, i'd fine spray the fabric, give a 5 minute dwell, then hit it with dry steam vapor with white terry towel attached. super results on all but one piece of furniture i recall.

some of the so called guru's out there use to tell me i was nuts for using such non conventional methods like the one right above.  its simply a combination method of cleaning.
i've said somewhere on the boards here that 99% of the fabrics out there can be wet cleaned.
you need to know the fabric, thats all.

[Jim England]

think what some have said here is true, sometimes you get different results with different fabrics and of coarse degree of soil load.  I also agree that probably hwe is safe for most fabrics today and with care can be done on almost any.  

Recently we have been experimenting with a new dry vapor steam machine that we sell and got in a month or so ago, for our new mattress cleaning business start up package.  The reason was that even though most any dry vapor steam machine will sanitize mattresses and furniture, we wanted a machine that could actually clean the furniture using an extraction process.  It also could be used for many other things as well.

We found that even though again most any dry vapor steamer could clean furniture, by using a micro fiber towel or cotton towel, and attaching it to the cleaning head, and then running it over the furniture with the steam.  It would do a good job, but we wanted something a little faster and that would extract.

The new Desiderio machine we have been testing has a two stage vacuum with a high and low setting, and uses water as its main filter.  It filters the air better than a hepa filter.
You can steam, steam extract, inject hot water with the steam and extract,  or just wet dry vacuum.  You can even add a mix of chemicals to the injection water.  It does an excellent job of cleaning any furniture we have come across so far.  It is really great for cleaning car seats, especially leather.  The nice thing about cleaning leather is you don’t need any harsh chems.  It leaves the leather nice and soft.  I have cleaned our leather couch and love seat twice now with it.  I have two Bull Mastiff dogs who like to lie on and slobber all over the leather.  Cleaning leather we just use steam with a micro towel.  So any vapor steam will work for that.  There are three controls on the handle, vacuum, injection, and steam.  You can also pre-spray furniture and then steam extract or using the injection button, add a mist of water to the steam giving you a little more flushing.  This still doesn’t leave the furniture as wet as hwe.

The only down side to this machine is cost, $1,295.00 for the Desiderio, or $1,595.00 for the Desiderio Plus continuous fill machine.  The $1,295.00 machine gives you about 2 ½ to 3 hours of continuous work before it has to be turned off and cooled down so you can add more water.
The only other down side is it takes a little getting used to the buttons on the handle while going from steam, injection and back, flipping one switch on and off as you finish your passes.  Just takes a little practice.

The offset to the cost is that the machines can be use for so many other things.  We went to a house the other day that we had recently cleaned and their 3 year old had spilled red juice all over there off white carpet.  There were lots of spots every where.  We had to use heat to get them out.  Normally we would use a steam iron, but we would have been on our hands and knees for a long time.  We just sprayed them with red vanish and held the steam wand over them and voila, out they came.  No bending, and after we just steam extracted those areas.  You don’t have to worry about burning the carpet with the steamer, like you do with the iron.

Here are some pictures of the machine and using it on a car interior.  I don’t have any yet using on furniture, but it is the same concept.

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Jim England
smart-cleanings-solutions.com
sanicleansystems.com

[jtmellon]

I dont care what, There is nothing like a good old fashioned hand job for cleaning uph.

[Grant D.]

Thanks all for the thoughts.  I've also used on occasion a small OP machine with pads together with a drill driver with 8" pad driver with tuways.  These together with the dry foam seem to work for about 2/3 of what I come across. That's still not a high enough percentage.  

My worry about the whole vapor steam setup for uph is I would worry the heat might bleach or damage some fabrics as commented on above.  I agree that it would add several other aspects to the business though which would be fun.  

[Andy]

Joe M, I got some releaseit and would like to try your method, but how do you go about whiping it into a foam?  
Grant, I found a web site that sells all kinds of dry foam cleaners, you might find a product that works better for you. newbielink:http://www.foamerscorner.com/index.html#TopPage [nonactive]

[azsteamer]

Jim, I know this is an old post but I wanted to clarify something: this steam/vapor machine has suction?  So you're telling me that I can steam/extract a mattress, or use this just like an upholstery tool with my T.M.?  

Bloody Brilliant, if it works.

az

[Jim England]

AZ, yes this machine will steam extract, in other words it will shoot the steam into the mattress or furniture and then suck it back out as you move the tool over the fabric.  Or you can add hot water to the steam which comes out of the tool like a fine 200 degree mist (not as wet as normal hwe, but wetter than just steam, and then extract) this is good for the dirtier areas like on the arm rest on furniture, or stains in the carpet or floor mats in a car, and then suck it back out, also works great for removing red stains where heat is needed.  It works very similar to an upholstery tool used with a truck mount or portable.  The vacuum is a two stage vac and has two speeds, so you can do more delicate things like curtains.  The suction is every bit as powerful as any portable extractor, and stronger than some.  We generally will steam a section then go back and extract it or use the lower setting so it doesn’t suck up the steam so fast.  Also since the vacuum part is water filtered it does a better job than a Hepa filter.

Since you mentioned mattresses I thought I would touch on that.  For mattresses we vacuum with a special vacuum machine first, and then we steam the mattress, which deeply penetrates the mattress instantly killing anything it contacts.  
Then we re-vacuum with the steam machine because it is a wet dry vacuum and very strong, this removes any debris that was killed by the steam and left in or on the mattress.  It also helps take out any moisture.  We then lightly spray an Anti-Allergen on the mattress.  This will neutralize any allergens that start building back up after the cleaning, and will last about six months.  After about six months there has been enough re-growth that the anti-allergen is not as effective and the mattress needs to be re-cleaned.  So we normally re-clean the mattress every six months.  The mattress is dry in about 15 minutes or so.  We tell the owner to wait for an hour then they can make up the bed.  Don’t forget to do the pillows, they are full of dust mites.  You should also do the furniture, and if you are already doing carpet cleaning then you should clean the carpet also.  This will give your customer a more total anti-allergen cleaning, and really make a difference in there discomfort levels.  I recommend besides your regular customers you market heavily to allergy and asthma suffers, because they are the most effected, and will notice the most relief.

A note on encapsulation cleaning and sanitizing the carpet, this is an effective way to help sanitize the carpet.  When encapsulation cleaners (good ones), dry and crystallize over any dirt left in the carpet, it not only crystallizes over the dirt but anything is comes in contact with.  Dust mites and other pathogens are smaller than most dirt, so it encases them and the fecal matter that causes the allergy problems as it dries.  A good Hepa vacuum will then remove most of them.  There can be over 100,000 dust mites in a single square of carpet, plus other pathogens, so it is important to clean the carpet as well as the mattress and furniture.  HWE extraction is good also, but the carpet needs to be dried quickly as moisture promotes the fast re-growth of these pathogens.  Many of them are of course are removed from the carpet during the extraction process.  Again a light mist of anti-allergen should be applied to the carpet and furniture after cleaning.

Hope this helps, let me know if I can help answer any other questions on this.

Jim England
Smasrt-cleaning-solutions.com
Sanicleansystems.com

[Phil R]

Jim, can you expand some on how your clients are receiving this service?

Are the one who have allergies commenting on how well this service reduces their "reactions"?

I have read a lot of the reports...and am unsure if it is hype or if it is true. Frankly...and not to be offensive at all....I feel rather skeptical at the time. But...in all honesty...i was the same way about OP and encap products. I am now sold 110%.

Please accept my questions as honest attempts to get educated rather than a slam.

[Jim England]

Phil, we sell an entire marketing program with our SaniClean systems package for allergy and asthma suffers, it is part of what they pay for when purchasing the package.  To answer your question, yes! most people show significant relief.   Even people without sever allergies or asthma will notice they sleep better, have less sinus drainage, and generally seem to feel better.  It is not unusual for people to say they have never had such a good nights sleep after the cleaning.  A lot of people have symptoms or problems including watery eyes, scratchy throat, itchy eyes, restless sleep, headaches, sneezing, sinusitis, eczema or stuffiness especially when sleeping. They have had these problems for so long they don’t even think about it, it’s just part of there lives.  That’s why it’s a little more difficult to just go out and sell mattress cleaning by itself.  People don’t even know they have a problem, and of course most have never heard of getting their mattress cleaned.  But people with allergies or asthma know they have problems and want relief, so they are easier to sell to.

Now you have to understand that some allergies are caused by things that you cannot control, but most are caused by or aggravated by dust mites, dander, fungus, mold spores or other things that can be removed or neutralized.  Even people with allergies that is caused by other things, usually see some improvement.  Believe me most people when there house is cleaned properly and anti-allergen treatment is applied notice a difference, and the more the difference the more they want it continued all the time, and the more they will sing your praises.  

This is why we say make your main target market people with allergies and asthma, but continue marketing to everyone.  If you due mattress sanitizing and/or whole house ant-allergen treatment, it should be on all your advertising literature and on your vehicle advertising.  As a carpet cleaner you have a perfect opportunity to get your customers to have there houses anti-allergen cleaned, or at least have their mattresses cleaned as well as their carpets.  In the mattress cleaning program we sell, we show how to demonstrate just how dirty there mattress is.  Seeing is believing, once they see the filth in their mattress they almost always want you to clean it, usually right then.  The hard part for someone just selling mattress cleaning is getting them to let you do the demonstration, but your carpet cleaning customers are relatively easy to do the demo for.  Again if done right mattress cleaning is very lucrative, if not you will get mediocre results just like any business.

I should also mention, by marketing to allergy and asthma suffers for whole house anti-allergen cleaning and treatment you will have virtually no competition, unlike marketing general carpet cleaning.  

I hope I answered your question, please feel free to ask more

Jim England
Smart-cleaning-solutions.com
Sanicleansystems.com

[noweare]

I'm late coming into this thread but it is an interesting one.
There seems to be alot of potential for vapor steamers.
I would like to use mine more. I have a small T&G job tomorrow
that I will use mine on.

Jim, Do you have any experience on the moisture difference left in a carpet of upholstery
between a vapor steamer with an extractor vs vapor steamer without one.

I would think that a steamer is self extracting to a point because
of the high heat. Its lighter than air so most of it will just dissapate.

What do you think.
Joe

 

[Grant D.]

Wanted to refresh this thread because I see a couple of you talking about vapor steam cleaning uph.

How much dirt does that process remove?  Is it just removing dirt by the towel thing on the end of the tool? Does the dirt somehow get vaporized? Or is there a tank full of dirt somewhere? 

[ChemBright]

Grant- This process is still hard for me to get used to. When I clean upholstery with my vapor steamer I never use towels. I do it using he upholstery tool that shoots out the vapor and sucks at the same time. On real dirty areas I hit the switch to pump out hot water out of the "chemical injection" tank. With the Desiderio you put about an inch of water in the holding tank and it acts as a filter as well as catches the dirt.
I will clean chenille (spelling?) recliners and they will turn out great, look in my holding tank and see dirty water. Sometimes I have forgotton to put water in the holding tank and cleaned a piece of upholstery that was dirty and hardly had any water in the holding tank but yet the upholstery looked great.

I am still fighting with this method in my head. The results are there but the physical proof isn't what I am used to seeing in the tank. It is hard to get used to the fact that I am only using 5% moisture instead of 100%. So to only see 5% in the holding tank makes sence but I question if the upholstery should have a more thorough rinse.....even though it looks great when I am done?? (HWE guys are going to eat this statement up.. )

[Bill Martins]

Grant- This process is still hard for me to get used to. When I clean upholstery with my vapor steamer I never use towels. I do it using he upholstery tool that shoots out the vapor and sucks at the same time. On real dirty areas I hit the switch to pump out hot water out of the "chemical injection" tank. With the Desiderio you put about an inch of water in the holding tank and it acts as a filter as well as catches the dirt.
I will clean chenille (spelling?) recliners and they will turn out great, look in my holding tank and see dirty water. Sometimes I have forgotton to put water in the holding tank and cleaned a piece of upholstery that was dirty and hardly had any water in the holding tank but yet the upholstery looked great.

I am still fighting with this method in my head. The results are there but the physical proof isn't what I am used to seeing in the tank. It is hard to get used to the fact that I am only using 5% moisture instead of 100%. So to only see 5% in the holding tank makes sence but I question if the upholstery should have a more thorough rinse.....even though it looks great when I am done?? (HWE guys are going to eat this statement up.. )

When i cleaned uph using hwe w/ the truckmount it would take me about 2 hours on a sectional say 5 piece sofa plus pillows.  Does it take you about the same amount of time using the vapor steamer?

I've seen Jim's video using the vapor steamer, i do prefer that method over the truck mount method personally. Not in terms of how clean it gets, just everything else that comes along with the setup, plus i used to hate using blowers to dry upholstery, most of the time those things would stay wet for hours w/out blowers too.

[ChemBright]

I used to do upholstery the HWE way. I still have my equipment to do it and when I did upholstery would be dry in 3-5 hours. This process using the vapor steamer takes the same amount of time to clean but will be dry in an hour in most cases.

[jeffvanburen]

Bill-
With your Makita and encap juice a 7' sofa including prevac will take about 30-45 minutes, arm chair 20 minutes. About the same time for vapor steam both styles will look great and dry fast

[clearlypro]

Since I still have my gum machine, I'd like to learn if it can be used for this service.

If anyone out there can help me figure out what is missing...I'd be very grateful.

It is the Daimer CVG 5000

The steam is not so 'dry' though.

[micky navarro]

wow phil, you gots a nice steamer in the cvg 5000
good heat and good pressure in that puppy.

you'd need to get an upholstery attachment for itm and if possible, one that cuts down the flow a tad.
the gum machines do put out more of a wet steam vapor as opposed to the other machines which put out a drier steam.

maybe jim england can help?  i dont know if he still works with daimer, then again, he may own the joint now but alan goldstein was very helpful to me years ago when i did business with him.

might be worth the shot to call