Author Topic: Method Bashing  (Read 752 times)

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Offline Mike M

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Method Bashing
« on: December 31, 2010, 09:28:48 AM »
There has been more method bashing than I like to see here on this forum.

IMHO all methods have merit if done in a professional manner. Like many other things in life there is more than one way to get something done. Doesn't make it right or wrong.

We have room here for cleaners who use all different methods of cleaning. We can agree to disagree. Let's keep the discussions civil please.  :c017:

Offline chrissalter

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Re: Method Bashing
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2010, 09:56:34 AM »
I do not think we will ever see eye to eye mike.  I talk to carpet installers who say if hwe worked why is there 10-20 lbs of sand in the padding?  I get hwe manufacturers telling me the carpet mills say it must be flushed or it is not clean. However science is pushing us forward every day.  The best example I have is a good comparison between both methods regular upright washing machine 40 gallons of water per load, flushes the clothes, not very good agitation.  New HE washing machines 5 gallons of water improved cleaners, and better agitation. I do not believe enough testing has been done on encapsulants.  I just changed my god awful builders grade carpet out a month a go.  It was 4 years old cleaned by hwe 4 times first 2 years every 6 months.  It was cleaned the last 2 years with Encap.  when I pulled up the carpet their was No Dirt in the pad or under it except a little by the edges.  All the installers I have talked to told me there should have been a ton of sand.  This carpet is in the living room and takes all the traffic from my 4 toddlers 5,4,3,2 you should see the amount of sand I vacuum out of the carpet.  Is this a unique example no the installers I talk to I also clean for and have replaced there carpet with the same results and have stated no sand and they believe it is from the low moisture not high pressure pushing down.  I do not want to start a war I value every members opinion however we are tired of being bashed everywhere because low moisture cleaners choose to go against the grain.  What grain science backs this whole argument up and yet we get called hacks and every other name in the book my question is WHY?   

Offline Mike M

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Re: Method Bashing
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2010, 12:25:14 PM »
WHY?.........Because its newer technology and at the moment a minority of people are using it. I'll admit I love VLM cleaning. Works great, low overhead, fast dry, closed doors, no machine maintenance.......I could go on.

I've personally used every method that is used in our industry. They ALL have merit and situations where they shine. That's not to say one is better than another in every situation. I've used VLM of various kinds and got great results. Used HWE (portable and TM) and got great results. I've even used a combination of methods and got great results. ............How is that possible? Both methods work in the hands of a caring professional.

One thing I've noticed over the years..............There is usually a financial reason why a company or organization prefers or recommends a particular method. Many sell a system of their own to clean. Many of the forums are also owned by someone with something to sell.

Cleaners are as passionate about their methods as car lovers are about their favorite brand. There's nothing wrong with that. Honestly I think the bad operators of any method don't help any of us. There are hacks out there using all methods. Makes the method and cleaners in general look bad. Most in this business are hardworking honest people who want to provide for their family. I have a lot of respect for anyone like that. Pretty sure that covers the majority of our board members.

This forum will continue to be an independent place where cleaners of all kind can share ideas without being harassed because of method used. There is plenty for all of us to learn.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 08:20:25 AM by Mike Martell »

Offline ChemBright

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Re: Method Bashing
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2010, 12:36:28 PM »
I find it funny that it is usually the HWE guys that are on the attack to justify how good thier method is. Seems that most HWE ONLY guysreally try to discredit VLM. They say they have done it.....with  usually a 175 and some cheap encap product from a major suppler. What also gets me is these HWE guys that bash VLM and they have a cheap 20 year old Eureka vaccum in thier van....but yet claim to be the best cleaner out there and the most educated.

Mike feel free to delete my post if you want. Just had to give my .02

Offline c spot stop

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Re: Method Bashing
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2010, 01:00:39 PM »
There are several sides top this 'bashing' thing.

In the end, I THOUGHT we were all here to try and help.

Too many take too much too seriously.

Offline chrissalter

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Re: Method Bashing
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 01:16:45 PM »
I just think with water restrictions and crap on the horizon low moisture seems to be creeping up everywhere.  lawns, laundry, will not be long until carpet may be regulated correct?  They just approved a 600% water charge increase on my community well.  It is getting out of hand with my lawn my water bill was $300 a month!!! I watered once a week.  I had to put in a well but many others are not allowed to. Just looking at the future which way will cleaning lean towards?

Offline Andy Mc

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Re: Method Bashing
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2010, 01:58:28 PM »
I used to be anti HWE, and pro VLM. (When I started)  I learned that sometimes hwe is a better method, sometimes vlm is a better method , and MOST of the time you can do an equally great job with either one.  (provided you care about your work)   The problem is to many cleaners sell on method. So they have to show that the other methods suck, in order to make their method look better to their customers.      Thus the method debate. 

Offline Lefty724

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Re: Method Bashing
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2010, 07:12:10 PM »
I am actually going the other way as Andy, I was all HWE for the last 2 years but am trying to learn as much as possible about VLM. IMO there is a time and place for both, so there is no need to knock the other method? I am switching to 80-90% VLM (if I can figure it out???) and will save the porty/spotter for those "special" times.

Agreed, we should all be here helping each other out. This a great, friendly, helpful forum and I hope it stays that way for a long time!

Offline c spot stop

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Re: Method Bashing
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2010, 08:32:47 PM »
I am doing a really one next week... and I will take the porty along.

I will not use encap...I will juice it up with a high pH cleaner, scrub with 175 and extract with an acid rinse. I will also get paid a weeks salary for doing so.

I offer a warranty with my service I do not speak of much here... "If your spots come back, so do I free. If you are not happy, I will cheerfully refund 100% of your fee and sit while you call another cleaner. If they get it cleaner, send me the bill and I will pay it." Top that gurus.

It was implied in a recent thread I did not pour my heart and soul into this business...nothing is further from accurate. What is more accurate is I work smart....not hard.

Using my VLM process (which BTW I have perfected) I have yet to have to get another cleaner. And the 'Best clean or it is free' guys have stopped using that crap around here.

I do not clean carpets full time...I do not have to. I did comedy full time for years..

The issue will never be settled for everyone...but it is settled for me. Neither system is better. And a more expensive OP buffer will not serve me well nor will a fire breathing truck mount. I have owned both.


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