Bonnet pro?

[Andy Mc]

I visited the website the other day, last time checked them out was a LONG time ago.  They just had surround and the green version, Now they have some newer products that look interesting.  I like their idea of being able to add oxidizer to the encap as needed. But I wonder if it harms the encap ability at all?  Also The new surround ultra looks like a good one to use for general deodorizing. Any one  using their products?  I would wonder how they compare to vacaway , or DS   ?   I know a few who have tried the surround green , and said it cleaned good but were unsure if the encap would vacuum out of the carpet due to glue like residue in the measure cup or something like that.   

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[jeffvanburen]

Andy-
I have been using the ultra for over a year with great results. I generally use it where odors are a problem. I have received many compliments on the fragrance and end results of cleaning. Another plus is with 1 case FREE shipping!

[Bonnet Pro]

Hello, like anything if it is used wrong you will get an incorrect result. Mixing full strength ( some 20x stronger than actual use dilution) is wrong to begin with. Than pouring a thick coating in an inflexible glass continues the problem. Imagine a human hair. Now divide it by 3 or 4. This is the thickness of a carpet filament, now imagine how thin the polymer coating would be on that filament. I have an appointment in the near future with an electron microscope to measure this and hopefully get some actual numbers. Anyway what dries down in a glass is completely different than the intended design for the actual use of the product. In reality the T2 coating is tougher than a crystallizing polymer and this is good as I don't want it to release the soil back into the carpet and I do want a thin re-wetable coating to provide soil resistance. The dry down marketing trick is just that. I wonder why they don't have you dilute their product to do the test? Well actually, I do know. The polymer should dry hard and clear and come off slowly no fall or flake off like dandruff. They risk of encap dust is also a none issue with Surrounds type of polymer.
As far as the Bright All goes the end results are oxygen, water and trace amounts of soda ash. Nothing that would effect polymers.

[PlumKleen]

Bonnet Pro, I used a gal. of the  Surround Ultra, Customers loved the smell and the results as well. The only negative I noticed was when I used it in my own home on a polyester cut pile it seemed to change the feel of the carpet like it was not quite dry. Also seemed a bit slick on the adjoining hard floor days after cleaning. The carpet is in a finished basement with no moisture problems. I eventually steam cleaned the carpet and have since cleaned with DS . The above problems were gone after the extraction. Can you tell me what may have gone wrong? Again that was the only issue I had but again not sure how custy's carpets dried up with one exception. I was just at a Christmas party today at an office which I used your product last year, they are still very pleased and I do not notice any issues with the berber in their office.

[Wayne Miller]

Bonnet Pro, what exactly is "the risk of encap dust"?

I've wondered about this since we started using encap products back in 1990.

I've never seen or heard of a single instance of any encap product causing anything.

Have you?

[Bonnet Pro]

Hi PlumKleen, How much per gallon did you use? The adjoining floor was the foot traffic in socks or shoes? If a polymer film was on the floor ( over spray or walk off) I would think it would be less slippery not more. How long did the carpet take to dry? Not sure I have an immediate answer.

Hi Wayne. This is more of my opinion based on small particles getting small enough to be air born. I am going to run some simple tests to prove or disprove this so right now it is just theory.
If you are concerned than have the customer vacuum when the rug is dry is small children and pets are involved.

[Wayne Miller]

I think it's a non-issue.  When you do the math there's very little product left in the carpet.  Especially when you padcap.  And, as I mentioned, in 20 plus years I haven't seen or heard of any reason for concern.  I'll give the formulators the benefit of the doubt they're not using carcinogenic polymers.  lol

When you say "The risk of encap dust is also a none issue.......", though, it's  meant to cast doubt on competitive products, some of which I'm rather fond of.  I'm not trying to bust your chops but I do think it's only fair you quantify the "risk of encap dust" before you start beatin' up the competition.  It's not just a question of it becoming airborne, it's a question toxicity.  That's the sorta thing qualified labs test on rats, not with simple in-house factory tests.

[Bonnet Pro]

Hi Wayne, That's a fair statement, but they beat me up also. Look at the dry down hoax/test. That's not fair to a lot of chemicals as you don't use them full strength, in a glass or an 1/8 of an inch or more thick. I have a meeting with Intertek labs next week. I will be looking at encap under an electron microscope. Plus I will be doing my own tests concerning the encap dust. At this point its more about a topic. If I see what I think I will see, it will become a new marketing strategy based on facts I can prove and show. The fact is I do not what anything to be taken in to my body that I don't know about or approve of. This point came up somewhere else as the man asked if it was safe to encap in a day care center with kids crawling with their faces in close relation to the carpet. I think it is a valid point of discussion. Concerning toxicity how would you know 10 years from now? I would rather it didn't happen in the first place. Again, this was related to children and pets who's faces are in the carpet as compared to lets say an office building that gets vacuumed every day.
http://bonnetpro.com/encapsulation/ban_crystallizing_encaps.html    Remember this is a point of discussion not an accusation. The point of the board is to bring up new topics, solve problems and learn.

[PlumKleen]

Hi PlumKleen, How much per gallon did you use? The adjoining floor was the foot traffic in socks or shoes? If a polymer film was on the floor ( over spray or walk off) I would think it would be less slippery not more. How long did the carpet take to dry? Not sure I have an immediate answer.

Hi Wayne. This is more of my opinion based on small particles getting small enough to be air born. I am going to run some simple tests to prove or disprove this so right now it is just theory.
If you are concerned than have the customer vacuum when the rug is dry is small children and pets are involved.

I honestly can not answer to the amount per gallon, it was a while ago. But it would have been according to label directions. I do not recall the carpet taking long to dry. Perhaps I will try another gallon of the product. Thanks. Also have you considered offering the MiniMax minus the spray system as something that can be added at a later date? For me I do more residential and would likely not benefit from the spray system at this time.

[TRI -STATE FLOOR SERVICE]

THERE IS PRODUCT THAT IS EPA GREEN THIS MEANS EXPENSE TESTING AND 3RD PARTY TESTED.PUT THIS INTO RESPECTIVE WHAT PRODUCT IS SAFE FOR FLOOR.ARE YOUR  CUSTOMERS DOING PROPER CLEANING PROCEDURE THIS IS ISSUE BECAUSE LEAVE FILM OR RESIDUE ON FLOOR  WHICH IS NOT HEALTHY.I WORKED IN HOSPITAL INDUSTRY FOR FEW YEARS THEY TAKE HIGH PRESSURE ON CLEANING AND STERILE AREA BUT THIS STILL DOESN'T COUNT WONT GET SICK.JUST LIKE LEAD PAINT ISSUE KIDS SHOULD NT BE CHEWING ON WOOD.WE MUST TAKE SOME RESPONSIBLY FOR OUR ACTIONS.AND JUST DON T LOOK FOR LAWYER TO MAKE  QUICK BUCK.THIS IS TO WAY WE HAVE INSURANCE PRODUCT YOUR SELF.EXAMPLE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY EXPENSE DRUGS REASON  RD, PRODUCT,MARKETING,LAWSUITS.WE ALL REACT DIFFERENT TO CLEANING PRODUCT ,DRUGS,ETC.  GREEN PRODUCT IS ENVIRO 93+ ENCAPSULATION CLEANER.REFERRING BACK TO CLEAN MICRO-FIBER PADS REDUCE 99 % BACTERIA WHY THINK THEY USE THEM IN HOSPITALS

[Andy Mc]

Not sure if I agree or dis agree. It would help if you spoke English. 

[jeffvanburen]

THERE IS PRODUCT THAT IS EPA GREEN THIS MEANS EXPENSE TESTING AND 3RD PARTY TESTED.PUT THIS INTO RESPECTIVE WHAT PRODUCT IS SAFE FOR FLOOR.ARE YOUR  CUSTOMERS DOING PROPER CLEANING PROCEDURE THIS IS ISSUE BECAUSE LEAVE FILM OR RESIDUE ON FLOOR  WHICH IS NOT HEALTHY.I WORKED IN HOSPITAL INDUSTRY FOR FEW YEARS THEY TAKE HIGH PRESSURE ON CLEANING AND STERILE AREA BUT THIS STILL DOESN'T COUNT WONT GET SICK.JUST LIKE LEAD PAINT ISSUE KIDS SHOULD NT BE CHEWING ON WOOD.WE MUST TAKE SOME RESPONSIBLY FOR OUR ACTIONS.AND JUST DON T LOOK FOR LAWYER TO MAKE  QUICK BUCK.THIS IS TO WAY WE HAVE INSURANCE PRODUCT YOUR SELF.EXAMPLE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY EXPENSE DRUGS REASON  RD, PRODUCT,MARKETING,LAWSUITS.WE ALL REACT DIFFERENT TO CLEANING PRODUCT ,DRUGS,ETC.  GREEN PRODUCT IS ENVIRO 93+ ENCAPSULATION CLEANER.REFERRING BACK TO CLEAN MICRO-FIBER PADS REDUCE 99 % BACTERIA WHY THINK THEY USE THEM IN HOSPITALS

Crap! You will never find a bunch of more responsable companies than on this site, if your here to impress us leave, if your here to share stay!

[PlumKleen]

dude, tone down the caps!

[Bonnet Pro]

 Also have you considered offering the MiniMax minus the spray system as something that can be added at a later date? For me I do more residential and would likely not benefit from the spray system at this time.
[/quote]

No I have not. I figure if someone wants to rotary and use a sprayer that is hand held they would have many options that would cost less. My goal was to produce a machine that could save time by spraying down the cleaner and also give the shower feed option. The sprayer is hard wired location so making it an add on may be a challenge for someone that does not have electrical experience. Why wouldn't you benefit in residential with the on board spray system? Thanks.

[PlumKleen]

Good point, though some on here have mentioned letting the chemical dwell a bit before agitation, helps with residential cut pile carpets. I currently use a sprayer to apply chemical so there is a bit of dwell time before I am cleaning. I have not used a machine mounted sprayer except for a test drive of an Orbot today at ex supply so I really have nothing to compare it to. Is over spray on furniture an issue with the machine mounted sprayers?

[Bonnet Pro]

It could /can be. You are spraying out at an angle instead of possibly straight down like a hand help sprayer but you get used to it. If you over sprayed its not hard to wipe off.
As far as dwell time. That becomes more important for HWE due to the fact you have little agitation. When using a rotary or op you get a lot of scrubbing from the machine that offsets the dwell time. Now if the soil is packed in or is in a restaurant that is not cared for, dwell time becomes more of a factor. But for the other 70 percent or so of your work it may not be needed.