Author Topic: Encap results with Surround Ultra  (Read 1064 times)

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Offline G Kleen

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Encap results with Surround Ultra
« on: January 19, 2012, 06:55:03 PM »
Cleaned 1,100 sq. ft. of carpet in a funeral home the other night. Three days later, went back to clean some vinyl. They had not had a funeral in that period of time, so I thought it would be a good opportunity to post vac after carpet had dried.
When we cleaned the carpet, we used Surround Ultra, Tuway "thin one" pads and the Mini Max. We always pre vac also.

Anyway, gave it a good vacuuming with the Hoover Conquest with a new bag. Cut the bag open and emptied on a white paper towel. I was very pleased with the results. If anyone thinks that encapping doesn't work, I have news for you, it does, if you have a good product.

With padcapping we have the best of both worlds. The carpet looks great when we leave, and the carpet continues to give up encapsulated soil when the customer vacuums. :ph34r:


                                                                 
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Here is a pic of the results.

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Offline Cleantech

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2012, 07:22:57 PM »
Love it  :ph34r:

Offline TRI -STATE FLOOR SERVICE

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 07:50:00 PM »
Great job  :rolleyes:

Offline micky navarro

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 12:09:31 AM »

berry nice g!

Offline jeffvanburen

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 01:48:12 AM »
Nice, I have been very happy with Bonnet Pro products also I really like the Ultra and also use it in a funeral home with great results, kills the stains and people are dying to see the clean carpet.

Offline Nick

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 05:53:05 AM »
Yep I'll bet there dying to see your work. LOL!!!!! Your vac really picked up quite a bit.
Nice job!

Offline ChemBright

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 10:19:48 AM »
Nice, I have been very happy with Bonnet Pro products also I really like the Ultra and also use it in a funeral home with great results, kills the stains and people are dying to see the clean carpet.

Sorry....I just thought that part was funny.

Carry on.

Offline Big O

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 10:48:32 AM »
Looks like you may have knocked over an urn :2funny:

Offline Andy Mc

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2012, 11:39:58 AM »
Not to be a jerk, but Looks like regular dirt.  Seems like you can always get more dirt with a second vac job, hard to say for sure the encap had anything to do wiht it?

Offline ChemBright

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2012, 06:47:34 PM »
Not to be a jerk, but Looks like regular dirt.  Seems like you can always get more dirt with a second vac job, hard to say for sure the encap had anything to do wiht it?

Glad you said it. I didn't want to be a jerk and say that. It is hard to say if that was from straight encap. Either way, some dirt came out. That's a good thing.

Offline G Kleen

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2012, 07:36:06 PM »
If you two are right, then encap is a big hoax. I am quite certain, after hundreds of encap jobs, that encap is no hoax. That is one of several advantages that encap has over HWE. The majority of soil left from HWE would be impacted and not easily removed by post vacuum.
I am quite aware that my viewpoint will not be shared by all cleaners and I find that somewhat comforting. The fewer cleaners in my area that utilize low moisture cleaning, the better.
I have been on both ends of the cleaning spectrum. My first 4 years in the cleaning biz were 100% HWE. After many hundreds of jobs with a TM, and now many hundreds of jobs with low moisture, I know the difference.

Offline ChemBright

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2012, 08:02:16 PM »
I am 100% a low moisture cleaner. Just saying that sometimes you can do a second vac and get that kind of dirt.

Offline Cleantech

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2012, 11:06:07 PM »
If you two are right, then encap is a big hoax. I am quite certain, after hundreds of encap jobs, that encap is no hoax. That is one of several advantages that encap has over HWE. The majority of soil left from HWE would be impacted and not easily removed by post vacuum.
I am quite aware that my viewpoint will not be shared by all cleaners and I find that somewhat comforting. The fewer cleaners in my area that utilize low moisture cleaning, the better.
I have been on both ends of the cleaning spectrum. My first 4 years in the cleaning biz were 100% HWE. After many hundreds of jobs with a TM, and now many hundreds of jobs with low moisture, I know the difference.


+1

Offline Andy Mc

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 09:15:51 AM »
On the other hand Mr.G,   if your so "right"  then why do all the encap makers say that you have to flush the build up out after so many encap cleanings with hwe ?   

If it vacs out so well , then why the eventual build up?   

I'm not anti encap, I've been vlm cleaner for 5 years, But I Pad cap cause I'm not convinced that encaped dirt vacs out. I've done tests also.   I hope to be pr oven wrong cause I would save lots of time by scrubbin and run, rather than going thru a bunch of pads trying to remove as much dirt as humanly possable.   
Having said that, I'll be taken a road trip wendsday to pick up a couple of 175 machines. I plan to straight up encap with them.  :)

Offline Mike M

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2012, 10:37:05 AM »
I'm just curious..............who says encap needs to be flushed out?

Never ran into that myself.

You would need to analyze the dirt in the vac bag with a microscope to see what was there. Encap does work. It seems to remain a mystery for many though.

Offline micky navarro

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2012, 11:00:45 AM »

i'm not totally sure but if i recall, a bunch of years ago, rick g sed if it makes one happy, a yearly "flush" on commercial encap jobs such as a chinese joint, or some other grease pit joint?

Offline Cleantech

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2012, 11:07:14 AM »
yes it was rick G in reference to always using a cimex.

straight encapping can only remove so much soil

Rick also said "flush" by either hwe OR padcapping 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 11:22:30 AM by Cleantech »

Offline Mo

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2012, 11:23:48 AM »
Mr. G you may want use a more absorbent pad when pad capping.

You can't see encapsulated soil with the naked eye, the proof is at the microscopic level.

I had a client vacuum a carpet a day after I cleaned with a new bag. He didn't give a crap weather it was encapsulated soil or not.

Offline G Kleen

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2012, 01:54:51 PM »
MO, it is absolute nonsense to think that encapsulated soil is invisible to the naked eye. It is the case when dealing with one carpet fiber, but when an encap solution is allowed to do it's job and the encapsulated soil is post vacuumed over hundreds of square feet, the accumulation of the soil gathered is very visible to the naked eye. It would have to be because it is a collection of soil laden matter.

As far as using an absorbent pad on CGD, I guess that maybe you have ruled fiber pads out completely and straight encapping would be out of the question. So much for a Cimex if that reflects your thinking.

Your "one" customer and his feelings that you mentioned are irrelevant. When CGD is encapped, the soil is removed via post vacuuming. That is simply the way it works regardless of anyone's feelings.

If you choose to use an assortment of absorbent pads on a commercial carpet and spend the extra time removing all of the soil possible, that is just fine. For that matter, you could HWE and then pad clean in an effort to remove all of the soil. But none of that changes the reality of the encapping process when it is utilized.

Encap is a process wherein commercial carpet can be cleaned at a more reasonable expense to the customer while saving valuable time for the technician.

One has to use common sense also. If you encounter a situation where the soil load is off the charts through neglect of basic carpet maintenance, then you would choose an extraction process as encapping does have it's limits.

Rick G was mentioned above. Yes Rick is an advocate of flushing a carpet from time to time, but he has also said that he has had accounts for up to ten years that have been maintained only with the Cimex and post vacuuming, and they still do not need flushing.

Mo, if you have a lack of confidence in the encap process then I suggest that you use other cleaning methods that you feel more comfortable with.  There is certainly more than one way to clean carpet.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 01:56:30 PM by G Kleen »

Offline Mo

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2012, 02:06:59 PM »
Dang G all I said is if you're going to pad cap you may as well use a pad that is going to absorb more soil than a thin Tuway pad.


It sounds like you're a little defensive about being a rag spinner ;D ;D

Offline ChemBright

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2012, 02:19:00 PM »
If you choose to use an assortment of absorbent pads on a commercial carpet and spend the extra time removing all of the soil possible, that is just fine. For that matter, you could HWE and then pad clean in an effort to remove all of the soil. But none of that changes the reality of the encapping process when it is utilized.


It would be just that. An "effort". No system or sytems put together will remove 100% of the soil.

I think this thread has taken a wrong turn. I have used several Hoover Conquests throughout the years and all I am saying unless it is a brand new unused vacuum, you can run it and all the buildup inside of it can make its way into a new clean bag. There is no doubt in my mind that encap works. I just don't know that what is in your picture is 100% left over encap. Like I said before. Point is, you removed more dirt and that is a good thing.

Offline Mike M

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2012, 02:33:29 PM »
I was always under the impression that one would remove addition soil when vacuuming post cleaning. This is because soil has been separated from fiber and suspended.

I do not subscribe to the idea that one needs to flush encap agents with HWE. Perhaps there are some formulations that need this but I doubt it.

You can encap clean almost any carpet even extremely soiled. It takes time, effort and materials though. It may be faster in those cases to use HWE then post pad or OP prescrub then extract. You can also run encap agents through HWE machines so you still get encap benefits. Many products made specifically for this purpose.

Straight encap has its place as does padding and padcapping. Its up to you as technician to decide when to use which.


Offline Andy Mc

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2012, 03:25:30 PM »
Rick G and also the surround guy, talks about having to flush out the build up after so many encap cleanings.  One of the selling points of the surround products is that the dried encap is re- wettable, thus allowing for easer flushing out with HWE .

Any hew sounds like Mr G has all the awnswers, ,   And perhaps all that dirt he showed is encaped soil, and maybe it's all just dirt that he didn't get with the first pre vac,  How do we know for sure?  Untell we have facts, I think we are all entitled to our opinions.

Offline G Kleen

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2012, 06:27:08 PM »
Don't see how I came across as defensive Mo. Just an attempt on my part to define the encapsulation process. A lot of cleaners do not believe that encap products actually work.
I was actually enjoying the thread and didn't realize that I was ruffling feathers.

But to be clear Mo, you did say that encapped soil is invisible to the naked eye, so you actually did say more than "use an absorbent pad".

My initial intent was to give Bonnet Pro a thumbs up for having such a good product, but at the same time I also expected to arouse those that do not fully accept the claims of encapsulation products. It is just unavoidable.

But anyway, like I said earlier, use the cleaning process that you feel comfortable with. For that to be perceived as defensive is strange indeed.

Offline Andy Mc

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Re: Encap results with Surround Ultra
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2012, 07:07:23 PM »
Joe ,
I look forward to learning more about this surround stuff. So please keep sharing your experience.  I keep wanting to try the stuff out,  but soon as I get an extra buck , one of the kids needs a pair of shoes.

Is the minni max your first expereince with a rotary ? 

 


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