difference between 175 and orbot

[rodneyfultz]

What's the difference

• 

[jeffvanburen]

Where to begin, we're comparing apples to oranges
175 rotates, Orbot Oscillates
175 head weight is usally much heavier than Orbot
175 easier to tip bloom than Orbot
175 has learning curve to operate, Orbot is very user friendly
175 new and used are less expensive than Orbot
175 looks like a buffer, Orbot looks new age cleaner
175 head does not flip up, Orbot head flips up
175 some handles adjust height to a small extent, Orbot folds in half
These are just what comes to mind at this time I'm sure there are more

[ChemBright]

175's weigh 20-30lbs more than Orbot.
175's cannot be pulled up a flight of stairs, Orbots can.
Only people in Florida use 175's and do engraving to make up for not having an Orbot. (kidding)
175's are harder to handle in tight areas. Orbots are a tad better.

[c spot stop]

wrong.

tip blooming is way more of an issue with a OP than a rotary since the spin goes the same direction as the twist in the fiber.

However, you can mess up a carpet fast with either machine.

My 175 can be pulled up stairs with no issue.

The learning curve for a beginner IMO will be the same assuming he has run neither machine before. I can teach anyone to use a 175 like a pro in one hour. I can teach anyone how to use an OP in the same hour. The difference is how stupid the many may be from the start.

If you have NO hand-eye skills... get into another business.

[ChemBright]

My 175 can be pulled up stairs with no issue.

Yeah.....but are the stairs still salvageable when you are done?

[c spot stop]

The wheels on mine are good, solid wheels with no goofy bumpers/fenders.

However, if I let the wheels hit the carpet when wet, they will leave a black streak for 50 freakin miles.

so, I never let the wheels hit the carpet when wet. Rather, I buff to the edge and the spin around and lean it back onto the tile.

Now, I do not roll it up wooden steps. That is a no-no. But I can handle it for a flight or two.

But my POS HOS Vento was even worse on stairs.

But the Orbot does have those killer wheels. But if it were a real issue, I'd just use a hand truck. Which, when the axle breaks, I am gonna do anyway.

Jeff did have a great point about the looks of a buffer as opposes the the looks of the Orbot. The orbot does have a really stealthy look to it. My buffer looks like poo.

Yesterday the guy was home and asked me if I was gonna wax his carpet. I had to sit down I was laughing so hard. He was serious.

But when I was done and the spot SS could not get out..was gone... he smiled when he wrote the check.

[Burtonblue75]

Yesterday the guy was home and asked me if I was gonna wax his carpet. I had to sit down I was laughing so hard. He was serious.
 

But when I was done and the spot SS could not get out..was gone... he smiled when he wrote the check.

ok that last line you wrote sums everything up.. A guy who knows how to use a 175 can out clean ss - Nuff said ( not that it means much to us, but to a custy yes )

I have tried draging a 175 up a couple flights of stairs and have found its way worse on my back than just dead lifting that sucker up the flight...

To sum it up one is faster (sometimes), one is lighter, one is more pretty.. one is way more expensive..

In a buisiness perspective.. I can get another van(2000), a 175(600), a sprayer(30), chems(70), Vaccuum (100), and pads(200), for the same price as an Orbot..

I think the big thing here is if someone is planning on running a single van for the rest of thier life and doing the work. Or if they are planning on having others eventually work for them.  (this is not meant as a direct negative stab towards anyone, and I understand some have made it with all the expensive equipement, but I really think this is the main ending result most are looking for.. to work for themselves and just make a decent living, and not caring about getting big.)

[c spot stop]

Steve, at Vacaway, had a CC'ng co and he had peeps working for him...and I think he used buffers.

Likely now they use OP macheens but do not hold me to it.

Since we are on the subject, seems like a good idea to also buy a cheap porty. say one for a grand...no heat, no real pressure and 2, 2 stage vacs.

Oh.. like mine.

[ChemBright]

Steve, at Vacaway, had a CC'ng co and he had peeps working for him...and I think he used buffers.

Likely now they use OP macheens but do not hold me to it.

Since we are on the subject, seems like a good idea to also buy a cheap porty. say one for a grand...no heat, no real pressure and 2, 2 stage vacs.Oh.. like mine.

That is a real good idea. I plan on buying a Kwik-Steem from Ed V at the end of the year. I may see if he can add heat to it just for the upholstery side of things. But having a porty (not a spotting machine) is a good idea. I spotting machine is also a good thing to have. I use the snot out of mine.

[Bonnet Pro]

http://bonnetpro.com/carpetmax/minifeatures.html
This machines weighs only 89 pounds and has 3  6" wheels that contain precision sealed ball bearings in a high quality poly wheel and has a removable 5 gallon tank so it is very easy to take up steps.
Check out the video on the link above.

[ChemBright]

http://bonnetpro.com/carpetmax/minifeatures.html
This machines weighs only 89 pounds and has 3  6" wheels that contain precision sealed ball bearings in a high quality poly wheel and has a removable 5 gallon tank so it is very easy to take up steps.
Check out the video on the link above.

John- I do think your MiniMax is way cool and wouldn't mind owning one someday BUT......are you SURE those 6" wheels will go up a set of stairs at an apt complex? You know, where there is no vertical part of the step to block the wheel from being sucked in? It just seems to me that 6" wheels are still to small. Am I wrong?

[John Bolton]

I find a rotary far less tiring to use over long periods because it is self-powered regarding movement over the carpet whereas an OP machine requires my muscle power to make it move!

Control is easily learned and you should be able to drink a cup of coffee whilst padding.

Slightly off-topic but I note that a rotary is often referred to as a '175'. I use one with a speed of 230rpm - are only/prdominantly slower machines used over there?

[John Geurkink]

OP USED to take muscles to move them, those days are gone...

No, people use 175 and some use 300 RPm John.

[Mike M]

175 is the most popular rotary size here.

There are dual speed 175/300 available as well.

Bonnet Pro has one that is 200 plus rpm? I think it is 220 or 230 rpm?

[John Bolton]

John,

I am aware that OP machines have become more user-friendly than they once were but thy still cannot be made to traverse an 8' arc in 1.5 seconds, whilst being controlled by one thumb and finger! The traction force is supplied by the rotation, not the opperator.

Obviously there are considerations beyond ease of use.

[John Geurkink]

I guess it would depend it you are talking about CLEANING or just seeing who can win in the quarter mile without cleaning.

[jtmellon]

When you say a 175 you are talking about the pad speed of the machine not the size.  Floor machines, buffers, swing machines, side by sides, pad machine or what ever you want to call them go anywhere from a 16 inch to 20 inch and from 1 hp to 1.5 hp you can also get a 2 speed that has a 320 pad speed.

I use a 17 inch and a 20 inch machine both are 175 hp, my 175 is my work horse and does all the carpet jobs.  The prices have come down on these bad boys a lot over the years, I remember when I purchsed my 17 inch in 1998 it was 1200 now you can get them for about 600 bucks.

[John Bolton]

John,

I have not needed to advertise for over 45 years so the repeats and referrals would suggest that I do actually clean rather than simply 'spash & dash'.

[John Geurkink]

I did't say you don't CLEAN, I said when you talk speed with a rotary, you are NOT talking cleaning. Look I started with the rotaries as well, in 1974, I know what they can and can not do,

[Bonnet Pro]

ohn- I do think your MiniMax is way cool and wouldn't mind owning one someday BUT......are you SURE those 6" wheels will go up a set of stairs at an apt complex? You know, where there is no vertical part of the step to block the wheel from being sucked in? It just seems to me that 6" wheels are still to small. Am I wrong?

I still clean several times a week, a great way to field test chems and machines. Most rotaries come with 5 " wheels and on a heavier machine are a little small. On the Mini with lighter weight the 6" make a big difference. One of our properties has 8 apt buildings and we do one every two weeks ( common areas) so we are always going up steps.

To address Johns comment about speed with a rotary, the fastest low moisture machine is a rotary, the Carpet Max. But at the end of the day your chemistry will do more for you than the machine concerning cleaning. The machine may make things more convenient but the chemistry is what actually separates the soil from the fiber.The bonnets may actually be second because if they don't absorb what can your scrubbing action do for you? You will always have the ******* wars concerning rotary, orbital and Cimex. Just like Ford and Chevy. You need to decide what machine will give you the most options and serve you and your customers the best with your unique job variables and you personal needs that each machines provides in a different light.

[John Geurkink]

John, I am NOT trying to be confrontational, however I am a stickler for facts.
OP not only does a better job...
It does it faster..


Now, that is not opinion, emotion or any such thing, that is simple physics. Yes I know what the chemistry does, however we have proven that just because the chemistry is there, does NOT mean all ways of applying it are equal. To do the SAME job as a OP you are required to operate the rotary n, s, e, w and then diagonally, OP does that in ONE PASS.
We have found since building the Trinity that regular OP machines can NOT deliver the same results, they can do a good job however they do not do it nearly as effectively nor do they clean nearly as quickly.

Everyone likes to enter emotion and opinion, and that is cool, but when it flys in the face of simply physics, then it because more of a hype then a statement of fact.

[Mike M]

This might be getting a bit off topic here.

The original question was Orbot vs 175 ?

Jeff had a lot of good answers in his post.

First thing I would ask before buying any machine is.........What kind of work will you be doing with your machine? How often will you be using it? Is this a stand alone system for you or would you use it along with other methods? How will a new machine help your business? Does it add versatility or allow new services? These are the same questions you should ask before buying equipment of any kind for your business.

A 175 rotary is a pretty versatile machine. You can clean carpet, strip floors, scrub tile, etc. Price new is less than half of an Orbot. If you go used they are plentiful and inexpensive. For carpet cleaning you can use a brush, bonnet, or a floor pad. Learning curve isn't too bad and once you get the hang of it you never forget. There are also a pretty good selection of brushes and attachments available off the shelf. I've never timed myself cleaning a carpet but you can get some pretty decent production rates.

Orbot operates like a lawnmower. Should be pretty easy to use and master. Does the Orbot come with only a Velcro driver? If so that might be a disadvantage if you wanted to use floor pads or some other attachments.

Setup and take down for each type of machine should be about the same? (not long)

Rotary machines are pretty rugged and dependable. Rarely any down time and that might be related to running over the cord or something like that. Not sure about the Orbot but there have been posts about that.

If you don't own a rotary it might be a good idea to get one at least for a backup. Decent used ones can be had for $200-$400.

Weight to me is a non issue. They are all relatively heavy for one person. If you can't pick one up then use a ramp or helper.

[Bonnet Pro]

OK John answer me this. On most jobs, your average job both machines and including the Cimex will remove soil. That is a fact. As you progress into the worst of the worst jobs maybe one stands out, maybe not. I have a friend, Clark Lancaster you probably know him. I have no problem with you other manufactures. The fact is while their may be thousands of orbital machines their are tens to hundreds of thousands or rotary machines. My point? Your one pass statement can be also done with rotary. I have been a cleaner since 1985 with my company and earlier than that working for others so I also have some time under my belt. Your statement goes to the fact that you think yours is king mine goes to the fact that yours may not be the best choice for everyone. Rotary is not going anywhere. And I still don't believe that yours is king. HWE thinks theirs is the best, Cimex thinks theirs is the best and so on. That's always for the people to decide, not the manufactures, don't you agree? Not to be a prick but what is the scientific proof that an orbital is better, other than your opinion? so it moves in a more violent unbalanced motion. That does not mean it is better. It still goes back to the chemistry and with all things being equal such as chemistry, pads the actual carpet being cleaned I don't think your will do as much as you claim to surpass the rotary. I'm not saying its a bad system as many people like the orbital type of machine. I'm saying the separation you claim is just that a claim. When sanding and you want to remove a lot of material you don't use a orbital machine you use a drum/ belt sander, something that goes around in circles. I know, different, but it does make a point. The good thing here is we both have enough people that like our equipment and the differences they bring to put food on both our tables. Merry Christmas John. Even thou we wont agree I wish you and your new machine the best.

[ChemBright]

This has been a good thread. I have alot fo time on both an OP (Orbot) and a 175. I would have to give the edge to the Orbot. It is easier to use and does clean faster and to just throw my experience in the pot to both "Johns" I have been cleaning since 1993. I have more time on a 175 than an OP but will continue to run with OP. They just cut through the muck faster. But, like I have said in the past. A 175 can do just as good in my opinion. It just takes longer.

[Infamousdave]

When sanding and you want to remove a lot of material you don't use a orbital machine you use a drum/ belt sander, something that goes around in circles.

I certainly don't have enough experience to know which machine cleans best, if one really does but I do know about wood working. I know that when I want to sand something my go-to tool is an orbital sander. When I first got my orbital palm sander and my oscillating drum sander many years ago, I couldn't believe the difference the oscillating motion makes when it comes to removing material. That is the main reason I wanted to try an OP machine for carpet cleaning.